Интернет фенове коментират...

[neshev]

Напоследък се ровичкам в архивни теми, където хора коментират attitude ерата в реално време, а култажите валят един след друг, за това ще компилирам мненията в една тема. Започваме с "Интернет фенове коментират... The Rock!"
 

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ALL HE DOES IS TALK. HIS MATCHES ARE SUB-STANDARD. HIS FANS ARE MOSTLY LITTLE GIRLS AND HOMOS WHO HAVE A CRUSH ON HIM. WHERE WERE ALL THESE FANS A YEAR AGO AT WRESTLEMANIA 15. THE ROCK SAYS.....THE ROCK SAYS.... I REALLY SUCK.. 

 

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and one of the most untalented "wrestlers" ever to headline in a major fed. He is pitiful to watch in the ring. Wrestling hell: a three way shootfight between Sid, Hogan and the Rock. (

 

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Austin is wearing down, and Rock is running out of rhymes or something. Triple H has just turned into a drunken, hate-filled, agenda-of-rage bastard. And Undertaker sucks.

 

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The Rock- Although he's very entertaining on the mic, 95% of what he says is a repeat of what he said the following week. However, once again, it sells the t-shirts and that's him. Still if you take the mic away from him, he's nobody. The only matches he's done anything spectacular in are his matches with Foley. 

 

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There is no doubt that the Rock is loved by his Millions and Millions of fans and he is very entertaining, yet i think its about time that he learnt some new catch phrases and new moves. I Rocks matches are all pretty much the same, he lays the smackdown on his opponent in the corner, he start to struggle, he then comes back with a DDT, then a Samoan drop, then the rock bottom, then one of the worst moves in sports entertainment today the peoples elbow. I know it is what the people want and love but it is a bit repetitive.

 

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(therock) is far too over these days..anyone else notice this? its like austin at theheight of his popularity, and problems with his ego and everything else aresure to follow.does the wwf ever learn not to make one guy the biggest star and not really

 

have anyone else close to him in terms of fans? this is a mistake.the Rock is getting more boring each time he comes out, he can only say thesame few things over and over again. its getting tired and old.

 

and if I was to go to a live event, id be utterly disgusted with all themoronic fans chanting his name for no reason at all.the Rock can lick my balls, he sucks. Everyone that likes him, I ask yousincerely WHY?HHH is the game. and the best wrestler in the WWF these days. and deepdown we all know how very superior he is to the Rock. With the mic, and inthe ring.

 

the Tom.

 

HHH Fan.

 

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You said not to mention the ROCK. Is that because this was a discussion of wrestlers and he is not one? To put it bluntly, he should have stayed the BLUE CHICKEN!!!! At least then he was funny. The ROCK BOTTOM is a side slam for someone that cannot pick anyone up, and what is the big friggin deal about removing a pad and dropping an elbow? Finishing moves should be like the Choke Slam, Pedigree, Stunner, and maybe even a Super Kick or two, but a side slam and an elbow drop, give me a break.

 

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I thought of The UnderTaker With The Tombstone, The Chokeslam, The last ride, The walk on ropes, the running DDT. And then I thought of The Rock, His spit, slap combo, Peoples Elbow, Rock Bottom, the great DDT he does. Their are others I know but I just can't think of any. But when you look at HHH you have the Pedigree and the twisting keck breaker. And Benoit has the German suplex and the Crossface. The Rocks gimmick still sucks but his skills rule. X-Pac is still the worst wrestler.

 

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The Rock is a fad just as so many other easily marketable commodities -quick to be picked up by teenie boppers and jock-heads. Like these,the Rock's days are numbered and a backlash is soon to follow.It's sad when Jocks who would otherwise make fun of you for watchingprofessional wrestling go around spouting off the Rock's catch phraseslike they've always been a pro-wrestling fan.Just as quick as these sheep were to line up and follow the next bigthing (The Rock) they will drop him to move on to greener pastures.Sorry Rock, but your 15 minutes is about to end.

 

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ROCK!!!!!! It's not The Rock's talent that made him popular though... It's the WWF pushing him which makes him popular... The WWF can get anyone over who they want... They just decided to make Rock a super babyface... They could make The Godfather their top babyface if they wanted to and people would be eating him up just as much as the Rock...

 

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Bandwagon... You said it.... Thats all it is... Rock truely has about asmany fans as Gangrel.... It's just most people jumped on the bandwagon...The same people who were chanting Rocky Sucks a year ago are now claiming tobe bis biggest fan... Rock isn't popular, isn't skilled, isn't entertaining,isn't anything... He will have very, very few fans if he ever turns heelagain and you Rock lovers will be spouting your hatred toward him... RockySucks, and thats that....

 

[ShwN]

И аз едно време бях търсил, сега ще убиеш много илюзии на голяма част от съфорумците, че всичко е било цветя и рози.  

[YoTheReal]

О, не, не абсолютно всеки кеч фен на земята, е харесвал това, което и другите? Скалата и Остин не са имали подкрепа от 100.00% от хората, които ги гледат? НЯКОЙ НЕ Е ХАРЕСВАЛ ДАДЕН ТЕЛЕВИЗИОНЕН ПРОДУКТ, КОЙТО ДРУГИТЕ ХАРЕСВАТ?????????

КАК ЩЕ ГО ПРЕЖИВЕЕМ????????????????????

[tker 17-0]

Тъкмо щях да пиша, че не виждам нищо странно в горните цитати. Напълно нормално е на някои хора продуктът да не им е харесвал. За някои е бил прекалено edgy с повече кръв, голота и псувни от техния вкус, или просто са били свикнали WWF да предлага различни неща. Като добавим и наричаната от мен група на "вечните мрънкачи", които не са доволни каквото и да стане и които и да е на върха. Те постоянно нареждат топ хората, без значение, дали са прави или не. Така че, като цяло не виждам нищо странно и представително в горните мнения. В интернет може да намериш всякакви постове с цел да подкрепиш или отхвършил дадена теза, не само говорейки за кеч, а по принцип, както и винаги ще има хора, на които това което предлагаш като продукт няма да им допада. Въпросът е каква част от хората го харесват, каква част не го харесват, доколко е конкурентен и продаваем, и доколко тези критики имат основание. Ако нямат, супер, но ако имат, тогава вече е проблем.

[UNDERTAKER*]

^Това. 
Мое мнение от онези години би било сходно с доста от горните цитати. Не харесвах The Rock, Austin и новият стил кеч, просто защото бях свикнал с друг тип wrestling. Многото говорене, погазването на всякакви правила, цялата разпасаност и тоталната смяна на картинката ми идваха в повече. Предполагам, такъв е бил случаят и с много други фенове. Освен това, както каза @tker 17-0, си е имало и доста мрънкачи, които просто солят по всичко и всички. Като съберем тези два типа и се получава стабилна база противници на продукта. Тези, които са станали фенове на кеча точно тогава обаче си мисля, че в голямата си част са се кефили супер много и отрицателни мнения от тях доста рядко биха се срещали.

[Just a fan]

След 20 години ще извадим мнения от сега и ще се чудим как е било възможно да има хейт към тогава 45 кратния световен шампион Роман Рейнс. 

[koleda321]

Абре, някои от коментарите са твърде абсурдни. Едно е да имаш мнение, друго е да говориш откровени глупости, като " They could make The Godfather their top babyface if they wanted to and people would be eating him up just as much as the Rock... ".

В крайна сметка го има и моментът, че зависи с какво си израснал и как си се зарибил по кеча. Както споменах в темата за подкаста, тия дето сме се зарибили по кеча през тоя период, ще имаме определена  сантименталност към този период и всяка  критика към него е едва ли не богохулство. Но все пак човек трябва и да е обективен, а не като джабронито, написало следните думи:

 

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HHH is the game. and the best wrestler in the WWF these days. and deepdown we all know how very superior he is to the Rock. With the mic, and inthe ring.

 

the Tom.

 

HHH Fan.

 

 

[neshev]

22 minutes ago, koleda321 said:

Едно е да имаш мнение, друго е да говориш откровени глупости, като " They could make The Godfather their top babyface if they wanted to and people would be eating him up just as much as the Rock... ".

 

Същият аргумент съм виждал и за Cena/Reigns. Машината ги прави over, всеки на тяхното място би се справил еднакво и дори по-добре.

Все пак тогава IWC е доста по-концентриран. Само най-отявлените фенове са писали по въпросните форуми. За това и се пишат предимно негативни неща, въпреки че могат да се намерят и доста интересни мнения. Да, The Rock е един от най-мразените кечисти тогава, но не може да бие Taker, на когото искат пенсионирането от '99.

 

[Just a fan]

32 minutes ago, neshev said:

 

 Да, The Rock е един от най-мразените кечисти тогава, но не може да бие Taker, на когото искат пенсионирането от '99.

 

 

Явно кеч феновете в САЩ през 90-те са били отявлени идиоти и лайнени смаркове.

[koleda321]

Това ми напомня на култов парадокс. Undertaker през 2001 е спечелил в категорията  "най-надценен кечист" сред читатели на Wrestling Observer. По това време в рандъм даскало в рандъм квартал на София, България всички малолетни коври искаха той да им е гадже. Не Austin, не Rock, не HHH, а Undertaker.  Това, момчета, е Star Power!

[Suffer-H]

^Кои пък ще са тези малолетни коври? Аз, от това което помня, момичета в училище имаха нулев интерес към кеча тогава, а малкото, които гледаха, бяха фенки на Роки, Джерико и може би братята Харди. Undertaker, с тогавашния си гимик на пропаднал рокер, едва ли се е вписвал в идеалите за мъж на малолетните ученички, особено пък в нашата родина.

[koleda321]

В западната част на София това беше положението. Учудващо или не, момичетата искаха да са рокерки.

[MainEventer]

Намерих и аз няколко коментара на интернет фенове, свързани с кеча:

 

On 11/20/2017 at 8:04 PM, Enough* said:

Мразя, че заради 12-те човека, които гледат кеч във форума, се блокира целият чатбокс.

 

On 11/20/2017 at 8:37 PM, koleda321 said:

 

+1

 

On 11/20/2017 at 10:00 PM, MJ23 said:

Мразя че заради кеча не може да обсъждаме Биг Брадър в шаутбокса  

 

 

+ хоканията на байкиро в чата, че коледа гледа кеч

[koleda321]

Хоканията? Това ли е думата?

 

Иначе, реално погледнато, Бай Брадър.....е кеч.

[Metzgermeister]

Кеч, ама без мачове и с разликата, че действащите лица са напълно реални простаци, докато кечистите в повечето случаи само се правят на такива.

[koleda321]

Е, в доброто старо време и кечистите играха себе си и приликата беше осезаема. Сега е по-"така".

[neshev]

Време е за част втора. "Интернет фенове коментират... рейтингите". По-конкретно рейтингите през 2001, когато компанията започна да изпитва затруднения. Дори през 2001, рейтингите са основна тема за дебат, като това не се е променило и досега, въпреки че изминаха 16 години оттогава. Опорните точки също си останаха същите:
 

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This whole move from "wrestling" to "sports entertainment" was the worst thing the WWF could have done. WRESTLING fans have always been very loyal, but the WWF has turned off so many of its hardcore fans it's not even funny. Your hardcore fans are guaranteed $$$. They will buy almost any PPV you put out, they will go to almost any event they put on. The attendance figures at MSG, which for years was a guaranteed sellout, do not lie. The ratings for Raw & SD do not lie. Thehardcore fans are leaving, being replaced by fans who tune in every now and then. Fans who don't care about the in-ring product, and fans that have no loyalty. The new generation of fans does not care about wrestling, because they don't understand what it is. All they know about are 4 minute TV matches for titles that mean nothing.

 

I will always be a wrestling fan, and never will I call myself a "sports entertainment fan". When the whole "sports entertainment" thing started back in '98 it was a way for the WWF to get away of the kayfabe days of cartoon characters and ridiculous gimmicks. It was Vince McMahon's way of putting on an adult orientated show without coming under fire from parents who were used to letting their kids watch the innocent follies of a silly wrestling show. "Well we're not "wrestling" any more Mom and Dad. We're "sports entertainment" now.I'm sorry if little Johnny saw a half naked woman on television, you're thinking of wrestling. We're not wrestling". The move away from the "say your prayers and eat your vitamins" days was a smart move by Vince McMahon, however, it has spawned off into an excuse for the WWF not to put on a wrestling show. It has become an excuse for a 20 minute interview, and worst of all, it has become anexcuse not to rely on the core WWF product, WRESTLING.

 

The WWF still doesn't understand or appreciate what the core of their businessis. Every feud leads to what? A PPV. And what happens at a PPV? You have to wrestle. You can have the best built up feud based on non-wrestling activities, such as Hulk Hogan vs. Sting at Starrcade '97, but when you strip away all the hype and pageantry, you have to get in the ring and wrestle.

 

I am not trying to add to the abundance of negative columns about wrestling, but this is just the way I feel. I am not watching No Mercy tonight. Not out of spite for Vince McMahon or the WWF, but because I myself am turning into the newbreed of fan... I just don't care.

 

 

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I have a few ideas as to why ratings have gone down I don't know if you will agree to them

 

1. No More Jobbers

 

When I first started watching wrestling it was always a Name against some bloke call John from Oregon and you knew he was going to get his arse whipped. Now it is Name VS. Name every match there are no "Special Matches" to get you excited, you used to have a build up to the next PPV that would go on for a couple of months and then come the PPV you would really look forward to the matches. Now it seems PPV's are just long versions of Raw.

 

2. No Decent Managers

 

None of the current managers have any real personality, Midnight Express mentioned in an earlier Thread about great heel managers who used to wind up the crowd.

 

3. God Damn Interference

 

Why does virtually every match has someone come down to ring side and interfere in the match. you can guarantee that the ref will get knocked out and oops the good guy who should have won the match fair and square is beaten by being cheated against. I don't mind this happening but nearly every other match is a bit much. It is just a lazy way to build up some heat.

 

4. Too Much Talking

 

I don't know about you but I watched RAW the over week and it took 40 minutes to get to the first match, we had half an hour of Stephanie Talking and two commercial breaks before the first match !!!! I mean we have to have storylines I know, but surely it is a wrestling program first - Soap Opera second.

 

5. Scrap the "Invasion"

 

The invasion is a crappy Idea you are loosing the personalities of the individual characters, I mean why did the Dudley Boys join the invasion, I Think they used to be in ECW (Don't get this in UK so not sure you can correct me on this one) but they left to join the WWF, how can you invade something you are already in. If the WCW / ECW where that good why did they leave in the first place.

 

These are just my humble opinions but I'd like to know what you all think

 

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I have watched wrestling since the mid-80s and what is going on now is NOT wrestling. It is a bunch of talk! I am so sick of all these millions of crappy storylines. I like the classic wrestling when a match was between two guys with no run-in help. It lasted 20 minutes and was good entertaining wrestling. Tag Teams were huge! The Rockers, British Bulldogs, Harts, Powers of Pain, Power and Glory, Demolition, etc. They were all great. Now who do we have? A bunch of fancy dressed, big talking pansies.

 

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Oh where do we begin, how about:

1) Austin's reign as champ. Boring. HHH is *still the focus* and even if he wasn't, UT is so broken down and so is Austin, or lazy now, that their feud will be pretty damn unwatchable. Not to mention the fact that Austin's heel turn *still* hasn't taken even though they have been selling it like mad.

2) Bad booking. WWF has dropped the ball a lot the past couple of years. Take, for example, Test. Test was mega over and after HHH screwed him, they could have had a very hot feud, but Test got buried. So now, they bring back Test vs HHH on RAW and do what with it? Nothing. Also, they job out Jericho to HHH so Jericho can feud with Regal? They don't even attempt to build the hostility between Jericho and HHH even though Jericho is one of their most over faces and they need main event faces now worse than ever? Let's add to that the booking of the IC title. It was never good enough to be main event until HHH held it? Bullshit. This reeks of "they'll buy whatever we put out there logic", which works for a while, but ask WCW what happens when the bubble bursts.

3) People taking up space on the shows that need to be on Heat or Jakked forever. Take for example Chyna. None of the men will work with her, so they kill the women's belt and the heat of any woman who works with her? And for what? Remember when Chyna was a mute valet? She was good at it. Her current role she sucks at because she can't deliver her lines without either a)sounding like Scott Steiner or b) sounding as boring as Linda.

4) Elevating new people. Who the fuck are they trying to fool? ANything can happen, true. However, it usually results in HHH looking bigger and better than anyone else. Now, I like HHH, but good god damn give someone else a shot. I figured when he got the IC title that it would rotate him down for a while, little did I know that he would be rotated up. All of the belts in the main event is bad enough, but the same people holding them is even worse. You don't have to hotshot, but jesus the main event needs some new blood. They have perfect avenues to bring Angle and Jericho back in, but instead we get over the hill UT and 1-D Kane. When they do elevate someone, they fuck it up. Look at Angle and his title reign, pathetic. Look at Rikishi and his heel turn, it could have worked, but they panicked and put HHH as the mastermind of the plot and it killed Rikishi's heat as a heel. They never should have turned him anyway.

WCW is my favorite, yes. I don't watch WWF right now though because they have no clue what they are fucking doing and the shows are generally horrid. If they get it going again, I'll tune back in. I don't hold out much hope though.

 

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Even though most so-called wrestling experts on the net won't admit it, it really started when the Rock left to make his movie. HHH going down certainly didn't help. I'm sorry, but IMO Benoit and Jericho just aren't that interesting as main event characters. I think Benoit puts on a great performance in the ring against just about anyone, but I cringe whenever he goes to grab a microphone.

I know it's just a show, and I know it's not real, but Jericho I just don't find credible as a potential heavyweight champion. I ALWAYS think of it as an upset if he beats any of the other upper tier guys, whereas with guys like Austin, Kane, Rock, HHH, etc, you feel that they're evenly matched and it's anybody's match.

 

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I haven't followed wrestling for that long. However, hasn't the WWF only produced two (Rock and Austin) big cross-over stars in the last four years? These guys appealed to more than just *hardcore* wrestling fans. They had mainstream appeal. Thus, they brought in a larger audience. When Austin left, the Rock took his place and thus the ratings didn't decline. With the Rock gone and the Austin fans knew and loved turning heel, why would the casual fan bother to watch the WWF? The draws for them is gone.

 

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The boom is over, Vince better get used to it. Some guy getting his start in the indies just now will be his ticket back to the heights of 98-99 in 5-6 years time.

 

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The real reason that the WWF Ratings are on a decline is because of the product they have been putting out for the last 6 months. When Smackdown first started on free tv the storylines were sharp, the characters were interesting and the WWF was at the top of its game. Then just like any good thing, the Rock vs. HHH for the 100th time and a new cast of characters who were not built correctly and you have what you have now........boring. How many times is Kane going to wrestle Rhino? How many times can the Hardy Boyz face the Dudleys or Edge and Christian? In my opinion the only thing that will save the WWF is the WCW. New blood with talent (not Spike Dudley.....not Justin Credible) and hopefully good storylines. That whole Vince/Trish/Wife in the wheelchair thing went nowhere and they shoved it down our throats for several months. WWF won't go the way of the XFL but maybe now that the XFL is dead Vince will spend more time fixing what he broke.

 

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Let's face it: The WWF right now, is catering to the smarts. If not for the smart community, Benoit and Jericho would never have been pushed in the first place.

Your average Joe Blow six pack doesn't want to see these two small punks run around with a world title. They want to sing along with a catch phrase from the Rock or give the finger with Austin. They don't care about good wrestling.

 

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If I were Vince, I would change the show around.  Raw last for 2 hours. Use the first 10 minutes for wrestling. And use the remaining hour & 50 minutes to show STACY KEIBLER in all different bra & panties. And let people call in live, and tell Stacy what thong to put on.  Stacy Keibler = ratings.  

 

[Hachiko]

Някои неща, просто не се променят  .

 

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don't know about you but I watched RAW the over week and it took 40 minutes to get to the first match, we had half an hour of Stephanie Talking and two commercial breaks before the first match 

 

[prenti]

51 minutes ago, neshev said:

If I were Vince, I would change the show around.  Raw last for 2 hours. Use the first 10 minutes for wrestling. And use the remaining hour & 50 minutes to show STACY KEIBLER in all different bra & panties. And let people call in live, and tell Stacy what thong to put on.  Stacy Kei

[koleda321]

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Let's face it: The WWF right now, is catering to the smarts. If not for the smart community, Benoit and Jericho would never have been pushed in the first place.

Your average Joe Blow six pack doesn't want to see these two small punks run around with a world title. They want to sing along with a catch phrase from the Rock or give the finger with Austin. They don't care about good wrestling.

 

През 2001 година! А ние се оплакваме, че сега било така! КРАЙ!

Наистина някои неща сякаш въобще не се променят, хората се оплакват, че HHH погребва, че Stephanie говори твърде много, че WWE няма mainstream appeal, че не правят нови звезди.

Поуката е, че клиентът е винаги крив и никога не трябва да го слушаш.

[Metzgermeister]

Е, разликата е доста голяма между Стефка сега и Стефка по онова време. Най-малкото поне по мое мнение през 2000-2001 г. беше по-готина от целия женски ростър (колкото и малък да беше той), включително от Триш и Лита взети заедно и беше удоволствие да я гледаш, т.е. имаше го eye candy ефектът. Също така гласът ѝ не беше още като на 80-годишна пушачка... а може и да е бил, но да го е прикривала умело с пискливите си инфантилни промота, които напълно подобаваха на образа ѝ на разглезена богаташка щерка. Музиката ѝ не беше такава мазна, че да ти иде да си завреш игли в ушите. Най-важното обаче е, че често я унижаваха и гавреха по комичен начин (тя и вадеше много смешна и същевременно умилителна физиономия, когато това се случеше), докато в днешно време такова нещо не може да видиш - ако някой нещо ѝ се изрепчи, включва шамарената фабрика, а каквато е наедряла, сигурно един шамар от нея би пратил простосмъртен човек в интензивното.

[HeaDMaKeR™]

Интересно ми е какви реакции са давали за звездичките на Малцер.Иначе готина тема, ще е забавно да прочетем критиките на спецовете за КМ 17, която и днес се счита за една от най-добрите.

[neshev]

3 hours ago, HeaDMaKeR™ said:

Иначе готина тема, ще е забавно да прочетем критиките на спецовете за КМ 17, която и днес се счита за една от най-добрите.

И аз го мислех за евентуална тема и явно ще го преместя напред. Дотогава, ето нещо като teaser, който включва и другата спомената тема - Dave Meltzer:
 

 

[wascop]

On 25.11.2017 г. at 10:04 PM, koleda321 said:

Това ми напомня на култов парадокс. Undertaker през 2001 е спечелил в категорията  "най-надценен кечист" сред читатели на Wrestling Observer. По това време в рандъм даскало в рандъм квартал на София, България всички малолетни коври искаха той да им е гадже. Не Austin, не Rock, не HHH, а Undertaker.  Това, момчета, е Star Power!

 

On 26.11.2017 г. at 3:12 PM, koleda321 said:

 

През 2001 година! А ние се оплакваме, че сега било така! КРАЙ!

Наистина някои неща сякаш въобще не се променят, хората се оплакват, че HHH погребва, че Stephanie говори твърде много, че WWE няма mainstream appeal, че не правят нови звезди.

Поуката е, че клиентът е винаги крив и никога не трябва да го слушаш.

 

 

Докога ше ти чета редките дрисняни мнения пълни с противоречия и пръдливи доводи бе, миндил!?

Само смотаняк като тебе, за който женското мнение значи нещо, повече от собственото, може да го изръси това...

Във всяка тема - жените тва, жените, онова, аз съм десен адютант с лява резба, Тръмп е велик и всичко това гарнирано с три усмивки накрая, сякаш си открил, че след дрисня е най-добре да си измиеш гъза, отколкото да го бършеш, пък било то и с най-меката тоалетна хартия.

Откога мнението на жените, трябва да значи нещо повече за мъжа, отколкото мнението на кеч феновете значи за Винс?

[koleda321]